Reading_C1_How To Talk Yourself Up
How To Talk Yourself Up (Without Turning People Off)
Audio: https://hbr.org/podcast/2021/05/296801-2
This transcript was sourced from the Harvard Business Review . To see the original transcript and audio please see the link above in the title of this page.
Skills: Reading, Vocabulary Expansion & Listening
Time: 45 - 60 minutes
English Level: C1 (Advanced & Proficient)
To talk up - To promote, advocate for, or speak favorably of someone or something. In this usage, a noun or pronoun can be used between "talk" and "up."
ALISON BEARD: Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Business Review. I’m Alison Beard.
By now, most of us know that doing good work isn’t always enough to get you ahead in your career. Colleagues and bosses need to recognize what you’re accomplishing for it to really matter. Hopefully, they notice on their own, but you can’t count on that, which means you need to learn how to self-promote.
Count on - To put one's trust in someone or something (to do something).
I know what some of you are thinking right now, “Ick, I hate people who brag about themselves. I can’t imagine doing it myself.” Other listeners might have the opposite reaction. You’re saying, “Actually, I’m pretty good at letting people know about all the amazing things I’ve done,” and you’re probably the ones that everyone else hates. So where is the happy medium? How can those nervous about self-promotion get better at it, and how can natural braggarts find more subtle ways to showcase themselves?
Ick - Yuck, disgusting or repulsive. An expression used to communicate disgust.
Brag - To boast or speak proudly about one's or another person's abilities or accomplishments, perhaps to an excessive or unwarranted degree.
Happy medium - A healthy balance between two extremes.
Braggart - a person who boasts loudly or exaggeratedly; bragger.
Our guest today has answers. She’s studied all the different ways people draw attention to their own achievements and figured out which are most effective. Leslie John is a professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School and the author of the HBR article, Savvy self-promotion. Leslie, thanks for coming to the show.
Draw attention (to) - To attract someone to notice or focus on someone or something.
LESLIE JOHN: Thanks for having me.
ALISON BEARD: So how did you get interested in self-promotion?
LESLIE JOHN: Well, if I’m honest, it’s because I was a little tired of rolling my eyes at people just shamelessly self-promoting themselves, and with social media, it feels like it’s even more rampant and it’s just such a cringe-worthy behavior. And I also think that in a way I feel sorry for those that are so blatantly self-promoting, because it’s not helpful to them either. So I wanted to write a piece that unofficially call A Canadian’s Guide to Bragging, being a Canadian, to help people juggle this balance, this communication dilemma that we face when we’re trying to self-promote. That is, we want to convey our strengths and our accomplishments. We want people to be aware of them, but the bind is that when we do that we often come across as egotistical, inconsiderate, insecure.
Rampant - Growing or developing unchecked.
cringe-worthy - Causing a reaction of embarrassment or awkwardness for something or someone
egotistical - A selfish, self-centered person.
And the thing is these negative inferences that people have, they can even get in the way of what you’re trying to do in the first place, because bragging doesn’t even always work. It doesn’t even always make you seem more competent. So I wanted to write a piece to see what we can learn from behavioral science on how to do it better.
get in the way - To obstruct or interfere with something.
ALISON BEARD: Why is blatant bragging so bad? Because sometimes it seems like the people who self-promote in pretty obvious ways do get ahead. It works for them.
LESLIE JOHN: The studies that have looked at whether self-promotion actually pays off, they actually point a, I would say mixed at best, picture on whether it’s effective. So when we look at actually controlled experiments, for example, where people are asked to for example, read a transcript from a job interview. And in one of the transcripts, the person is super forthcoming about promoting themselves even when not solicited and another person is more humble, raters actually rate the person who is more humble as someone they would rather work with, but also someone who is potentially going to be a better fit for the job. So it doesn’t even necessarily pay off all the time to self-promote. That’s not to say that it’s not important that others are aware of our successes. It absolutely is important for others to know about them. But I think there’s a lot more subtlety to how we should communicate that.
forthcoming - open or sociable; willingness to share.
That’s not to say - I do not mean the following...
subtlety - So slight as to be difficult to detect or describe; elusive.
ALISON BEARD: Knowing that humility is a trait that people value, what’s the argument against just putting your head down and doing good work and expecting it to be recognized? It’s just unrealistic?
putting your head down - concentrate and work hard at something without distraction.
LESLIE JOHN: Well, so my general advice is just that, is to nose to the grindstone, earn recognition through consistent performance. And you’re not going to always be recognized for every single thing you do. But over time, if we’re patient, chances are our successes and our performance and our contributions will be recognized. Now, that being said, I want to immediately qualify it, and I don’t want to sound trite in suggesting that, because there are some very real barriers that people face to being recognized. One prime example of that is there are biases in our perceptions of people’s contributions to projects. So underrepresented minorities, for example, it’s sad but true that we tend to under attribute positive successes to them.
nose to the grindstone - Work extremely hard and consistently.
trite - lacking in freshness or effectiveness because of constant use or excessive repetition; hackneyed.
prime example - Major example. The most important point.
So there are some real thorny things that get in the way, but my general advice is I think we should be less concerned with having to self-promote. We need to find a way to have our successes be conveyed. I think that there are more successful ways to convey successes than us blatantly sharing them unsolicited. And so, in this piece, I’ve been trying to walk people through situations where self-promotion is effective and sometimes, in some cases actually, if we don’t self-promote, we can suffer negative consequences. So sometimes self-promotion is expected and if we don’t do it, then that’s a problem.
thorny - Controversial, problematic, or vexatious.
blatantly - offensively noisy or loud.
unsolicited - Without permission. Without being asked.
walk people through - Guide people and coach people about something so that they can learn through experience.
ALISON BEARD: All right. So let’s talk about trying to solve the problem or walk the line. You first in the article address some strategies that people use that don’t work at all. One example is the humble brag, which you say is awful. So explain what that term means for those who don’t know, and then tell us why it does not work?
walk the line - To behave in an authorized or socially accepted manner, especially as prescribed by law or morality; to exercise self-control.
LESLIE JOHN: Right. So in the lead in when you said, “Some of us, we’re really good at self-promotion,” and I would say some of us think we’re really good at self-promotion, because it turns out that some of our mental models about how to self-promote are deeply flawed. That is to say that sometimes our intuitions on how to walk the line, as you say, between showcasing our strengths without coming across as obnoxious, some of our intuitions on how to do that are completely off.
coming across - appear or sound in a specified way; give a specified impression.
obnoxious - Extremely annoying.
completely off - 100% wrong and incorrect.
One example of that is the humble brag, which is – some fascinating research that’s led by Ovull Sezer at UNC… A humble brag is a brag that’s cloaked in a complaint or a statement of modesty or humility. So it’s the kind of thing that once you’re aware of what humble bragging is, it’s everywhere, you notice it all the time.
cloaked in - Disguised
So, just the other day, for example, a colleague said, “Oh, I was bored so I wrote a book.” That’s a complaint-based humble bag. It’s complaining, “Oh, I hate being bored,” but the real brag is, of course, writing a book. Another one would be something like, “Oh, it’s really hard being the only one the boss trusts.” And then one based on modesty would be something like, “I can’t believe I got a top performance review. Totally unexpected.”
You’re trying to take the edge off with modesty. But the thing is, in these beautiful controlled studies where Ovul and her coauthors have looked at how you come across when you do that, it turns out that you come across worse when you do that relative to if you just did an outright brag. So it would be better to say, “I got a top performance review,” than to cloak it in this false humility.
take the edge off - reduce the intensity or effect of (something unpleasant or severe).
ALISON BEARD: There’s another funny term that you used, which I hadn’t heard before, “boomerasking”.
LESLIE JOHN: So boomer asking, it’s a little bit of a complex thing, it’s not that complex, where if you want to convey that – let’s say, you qualified for the Boston Marathon and you realize that just to say that outright is too abrasive, it’s too braggy. So then you ask your people that you know run, you ask them, “Oh, have you been running much? How’s the running going?” And so you ask them questions that hone in on the topic that you want to talk about, the thing that you want to brag about, so that you manipulate them into then, as a good conversational partner, they’re going to ask you how your running is going, and then you get to, “Oh, I happened to qualify for the Boston Marathon,” as if it’s like this unplanned unpremeditated break.
abrasive - Harsh and rough in manner.
hone in on - to find and go directly toward (someone or something).
ALISON BEARD: Funny you should ask me.
LESLIE JOHN: Exactly, exactly.
ALISON BEARD: Right.
LESLIE JOHN: But that doesn’t work either because people are on to you.
ALISON BEARD: Right. Right. Okay, so what are some better ways to self-promote?
are on to you - To see through someone's false perception. To discover someone's hidden and true intentions.
LESLIE JOHN: So the general advice I would give is, well, if in doubt, probably don’t self-promote, but the times when it’s socially appropriate and sometimes socially expected. And so let’s go through those. One is when you’re asked directly. So imagine you’re in a job interview and the interviewer asks you, “What are some of your strengths?” And you say, “Oh, I’d prefer not to say.” That’s a terrible thing to do. We’ve got lots of research, including some of my own, on how, when you refuse to answer questions, it makes you come across as untrustworthy, as shady. So it’s important if someone asks you directly that you convey that you answer the question and you convey your strengths.
shady - Someone who is likely concealing or hiding something.
ALISON BEARD: And I think people are used to doing that in job interview settings, but should we be more attuned to opportunities that might arise in the everyday work day, in conversations with colleagues and bosses?
LESLIE JOHN: Yeah. So another example would be, for example, following the conversational norm of reciprocation or matching. So if someone reveals something that they’ve accomplished, then you in turn can reciprocate and reveal something that you’ve accomplished. So reciprocation is a strong, conversational norm. We expect people, when we reveal something, we expect them, if only implicitly, to reveal something that’s similar in return. And so it’s safer to do it in that context.
norm - something that is usual, typical, or standard.
implicitly - in a way that is not directly expressed; tacitly.
ALISON BEARD: With that one though, how do you avoid a sense of one-upsmanship?
one-upsmanship - The technique or practice of gaining an advantage or feeling of superiority over another person.
LESLIE JOHN: You don’t want it to devolve into that, and I think there you can look to other conversational tools to grab control of the conversation. For example, you can share your success, but then you can also end with another question that shifts topics that turns you away from getting into this battle of the braggarts in a way.
devolve - pass into (a different state, especially a worse one). To go down a level.
ALISON BEARD: And then in settings like a conversation with your boss, where they say, “What are you working on?” should you have talking points or a little speech ready about all you’ve achieved?
LESLIE JOHN: So, no, in the starkest way. I’m envisioning how that would play out, and I think in many cases, when you just volunteer these hyper quantified proof points of how great you are, this gets into the problem, again, where you’re perceived as a little bit obnoxious in doing that. But I do think there’s very much merit in what you’re saying, where you want to have a sense in your mind of what the key contributions that you’re making to the team are so that when the conversation naturally shifts to something where it’s appropriate to share that you have those at the tip of your tongue. You don’t want to be scripted about it though, because I think there you run into the usual problems where this person is obnoxious and possibly even insecure for doing this.
starkest - Clearly distinguished or bare and simple.
play out - Happen or develop in a particular way.
merit - the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.
tip of your tongue - Ready to be spoken about without thought or delay.
scripted - To say something that is rehearsed, line for line the same thing said as it was written.
So in general, there are some contexts where it’s expected. So, for example, on LinkedIn, LinkedIn everybody knows that this is for job seekers and so we are more accepting of some degree of promoting yourself, of conveying your successes and your accomplishments. In fact, if you didn’t in that context it may again seem a bit weird or counter normative to not share. Another thing I was thinking about in coming into this interview of the problem of how some people are more naturally conveying their successes, and even if we don’t like them for it, at the end of the day, they are conveying the information in a way that those who are more humble are not.
And so I think that organizations can work to formalize or institutionalize the sharing of your accomplishments. So, for example, some companies have, every year, instead of having the performance review just be your supervisor telling you how they thought you did, as input to that conversation they’ll have the employee fill out, describe what their contributions have been, so a formalized way of doing this, which I think is helpful in leveling the playing field.
leveling the playing field - To make a situation or activity more fair and balanced by giving an extra advantage or opportunity to those who would normally be at a disadvantage, or by attempting to take away or diminish advantages, perhaps of one's adversary or competitor.
ALISON BEARD: When we talk about giving people feedback, we talk about the sandwich where you say something good and then something negative and then something good. Can that work in self-promotion too in that you’re not just talking about everything that’s terrific about yourself and what you’ve done, but also acknowledging a bit of weakness?
LESLIE JOHN: Yeah. So acknowledging some weaknesses, not terrible damning weaknesses, but real weaknesses, alongside your strengths, can make those strengths more credible and really make them shine. So, for example, I’m a leader who says, “I’m sometimes nervous about public speaking,” alongside some strengths, then it makes those strengths pop more, if you will. And one of the reasons is that it makes the person more credible, more human. It’s like one of my guilty pleasures is reading gossip magazines, and there’s this section, “Stars they’re just like us,” and so, it’s refreshing. I will say that you have to be careful and this strategy works well for people who have been unambiguously successful, people who are, for example, leaders in firms. It’s a lot more risky if you’re an unproven newbie in the field, then I wouldn’t advise doing that.
damning - To denounce or criticize severely.
pop - To stand out amongst other things or people.
newbie - An amateur; rookie; new to the role or job.
ALISON BEARD: And for those of us who are just really uncomfortable with any self-promotion, is it okay to make it about the broader team or group or does that just really diminish the effect?
LESLIE JOHN: Yeah, that’s a bit tricky because, to your point, it diminishes the amount that you personally get credit. I mean, my personal view, is that the long game here, the better long game, is to not just emphasize your contributions, but also those of the team, because it makes you look good too if the people around you are thriving. And I think that that’s a perfect segue into another point I wanted to make with this piece, which is that it’s not all on you to promote yourself. I want to liberate, especially those of us who are less comfortable self-promoting, which I personally think is a virtue, but I want to liberate those of us who feel that way from feeling as though we need to do it ourselves. In fact, in many cases, it’s more compelling if your successes are conveyed by someone else.
diminishes - To make smaller and less significant.
long game - A long-term strategy.
segue - To move smoothly and unhesitatingly from one state, condition, situation, or element to another.
liberate - To free someone or something from a problem.
So there’s research for example, on how, when someone else, for example, a mentor or a recruiting agent, speaks on your behalf about your strengths, then that information on your strengths is actually more credible than if you were to say it yourself.
speaks on your behalf - To communicate for someone who is not there or absent from the current conversation.
credible - believable or worthy of belief.
You want to also pay it forward and be thinking about who you can promote. I think sometimes people think of praise and conveying strength as zero sum, where if I promote someone else, then it’s going to take away from me. But it’s actually on the contrary. There’s also amazing research on how, if you promote someone else, if you talk positively about someone else, then that actually spills over on people’s perceptions of you too.
pay it forward - When you receive a gift, compliment or benefit from someone you THEN do the same for someone different.
zero sum - A situation where no wins or gains anything.
on the contrary - On the opposite.
spills over - To go beyond the borders or parameters of something and into something else, especially due to growing in size or scope.
ALISON BEARD: I’m curious as to how this advice translates across different organizations that might have different norms related to self-promotion, and then also across countries and cultures. Some places where there’s a more communal culture, it might seem very strange for someone to talk about their own accomplishments. How do you navigate that variety?
communal - Of a community or shared values.
navigate - To move appropriately or cautiously to avoid error or mistakes
LESLIE JOHN: Yes. So, in the absence of having a lot of research on this important question, what I would say is be very sensitive to the context. So just as I’m saying, follow conversational norms, share when asked, it’s safer when others are sharing, you want to be sensitive to the context and the culture you’re operating with. So if you are in a workplace that people are more humble by default, you want to dial yourself back a little bit to match that where appropriate. On the other hand, if you’re in more of a bravado culture, then it’s probably safer to be a bit forthcoming. So be very sensitive to the context.
humble - not arrogant or prideful.
by default - Standard way of acting.
dial yourself back - To lessen something, especially in intensity or frequency.
bravado - A show of bravery or defiance, often in order to make a false impression or mislead someone.
forthcoming - Open and willing to share without being asked to do so.
ALISON BEARD: Are the rules different depending on your gender or race based on what people are expecting of you? We know there’s still so much unspoken bias out there. So do people of color and women, for example, have to walk a finer line than majority group people might have.
walk a finer line - Be even more careful. Be extremely careful and worry about small mistakes having a BIG impact.
LESLIE JOHN: Yes. Sadly the answer is yes. So, for women, for example, when women outright convey their successes, they are penalized more than when men do it. And by penalized, I mean, they’re perceived as more arrogant or egotistical, more insecure, less likable, and so on. So it’s really unfortunate. And why is that the case? It’s probably because a woman’s self-promoting goes against our societal, though it’s changing, refreshingly, slowly but surely, instinct on how a woman “should behave”. I’m aggressively using air quotes because that’s, of course, not how it ought to be, but that’s just how it is. And so, unfortunately, I think women need to be particularly sensitive to these things because we face I think bigger penalties when we violate norms of what’s expected.
ALISON BEARD: One other thing about this current moment of 21st century work life is that we’re all in varied stages of working at home, probably moving to hybrid environments. So how do you do all of this over Zoom? Is it much more difficult?
hybrid - A mix of two things. Half this and half that.
LESLIE JOHN: Yeah. I mean, I think that it is harder because it’s harder to be cognizant of contextual and conversational cues on Zoom. It’s more impoverished, just like social media is impoverished relative to in-person.
cognizant- to be self-aware of something you do or say.
impoverished - Deprived of richness or strength; limited or depleted
ALISON BEARD: You can still do it, but just be more careful.
LESLIE JOHN: Yeah. I think you can still do it, but just be more careful, and you have to really be paying attention. So don’t be multitasking on Zoom because you’re already in an impoverished environment. And then if you’re distracted, that makes it even harder to pick up on some of the more subtle cues.
ALISON BEARD: And what can organizations do to make sure that people who might feel a little bit uncomfortable promoting themselves have opportunities to do it? So what can I, as a team leader do, what can I, as the HR Department, do?
LESLIE JOHN: Great question. So as a team leader, I think you want to make sure that you are actively soliciting, both from your employees and their colleagues, you’re soliciting information, not just on their points of improvement, but also on their strengths. So you want to get the information to surface, you want to solicit it.
surface - Out in the open where others can see it, explore it and discuss it.
And one way that I think organizations can really do that is to formalize the solicitation process. So some companies, for performance reviews, they elicit, from the employee themselves, they elicit the employee’s sense of what their accomplishments are. So it’s not simply the managers evaluating the employee, but the employee is giving input, is given an opportunity to formally brag, so to speak. And we know that when these things are formalized when we’re directly asked to share our successes, then it’s acceptable to do that and we should do that. So it levels the playing field I think for people who are more reserved in conveying their successes and for people, underrepresented minorities who may be understandably reluctant to share.
elicit - To provoke something from someone, typically a specific reaction or emotion.
reluctant - Unwilling or not wanting to do something for fear of a reaction or unwanted result.
ALISON BEARD: Is this really just about the individual and how we all can enhance our careers or is there a broader benefit. If we all get better at self-promotion, is that actually going to help our teams and our companies?
LESLIE JOHN: Yeah. I think that there is a broader benefit to it. I mean, if you just think of the interpersonal costs. If we just take the interpersonal costs of bragging, so to the bragger, when you’re not bragging properly, when you’re doing it in a taboo way, we talked about these penalties you experience. You’re viewed as less likable, inconsiderate, and so on, but also, the people on the receiving end, it makes them feel badly. It can instill envy, jealousy.
interpersonal - between persons; involving personal relationships.
instill - introduce or put slowly into the mind or feelings
And so there’s a lot of costs involved with that. Hard to quantify. But if we are better able to navigate this or walk the line between when it’s too much and maybe when it’s not enough in those cases I talked about where it’s actually expected –
Hard to quantify - It is difficult to know the value of something.
ALISON BEARD: That reminds me of another point of advice. You talk about celebrating in the right way. And, for example, when something really great happens to me at work, I just call my mom, because I know it’s okay to brag to your mom. So talk a little bit more about how people can celebrate in the right way.
LESLIE JOHN: Yeah, so you really want to milk your successes, you want to get the most hedonic value out of them that you can, and one way you can do that is by reliving them. So I keep, it’s literally called in my Outlook, Warm Fuzzies. I have a Warm Fuzzies folder and so whenever I get a really positive email, I put it in the Warm Fuzzies. And then on rainy days, I look through the Warm Fuzzies folder and I reread them in it, and it always lifts my mood.
milk your successes - To get the maximum value or benefit from an accomplishment or achievement.
hedonic - Pleasurable.
rainy days - A day in which everything goes wrong. A long, difficult or sad day.
lifts my mood - Makes someone feel better.
ALISON BEARD: My folder is called Praise.
LESLIE JOHN: It’s a great thing to do. It also reminds me of an important point, which is when you say you were telling your mom about your successes, there’s some really amazing research by Emma Levine, Annabel Roberts, and Ovul Sezer on hiding your successes. And it’s about how sometimes our instinct, especially with close others, is to not reveal our successes. So we may feel, for example, imagine we get a promotion at work and we don’t tell our bestie that because we’re worried that it’ll maybe make them feel badly. Well, it turns out that if we hide our successes from people who are really close to us that are really rooting for us, that can actually be harmful for our relationships.
instinct - knowledge of things before they exist or happen; foresight.
bestie - Best friend.
And the reason is that if you think about it, you think, why didn’t my bestie tell me about the promotion? Does she think I can’t handle it? Does she think I’m that insecure? So it makes the friend feel that way and it can harm the relationship. So you really do want to share your successes. You want to brag. Your instinct to call your mom is exactly right. The people that are close to you, you want to tell them, unsolicited, you want to share your successes with them.
unsolicited - Without being asked to do something.
ALISON BEARD: Terrific. Well, Leslie, thank you so much for all that advice on how to brag better. Hopefully, we’ll all start putting it into practice.
LESLIE JOHN: Wonderful. Thank you.
ALISON BEARD: That’s Leslie John, Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School. She’s also the author of the article, savvy Self-Promotion. You can find it in the May/June 2021 issue of Harvard Business Review or at hbr.org. This episode was produced by Mary Dooe. We get technical help from Rob Eckhart. Adam Buckholtz is our audio product manager. Thanks for listening to the HBR IdeaCast. I’m Alison Beard.
